Almost 4 years ago I did an in-depth 30th anniversary review of Crisis on Infinite Earths, focusing in on Supergirl's role, her death, some of the decisions which led to her death, and ultimately her legacy after Crisis.
I thought it was about as thorough as I could get.
Turns out I was wrong.
About a month ago I went to the North East Comic Con and there I stumbled upon Amazing Heroes #91, a special post-Crisis issue with an insane amount of goodness in it for a Crisis historian like myself. For a Crisis fan, this is a treasure trove. For a Supergirl fan, it is an interesting time capsule, once again looking back at what the reaction to Supergirl's death was on the comic scene.
I knew Amazing Heroes had done a lot of Crisis commentary back in the day, and it wasn't all kind to Supergirl in the aftermath of her death.With news of her impending death already out, Amazing Heroes #74 had a requiem that was really more a diatribe about how pathetic Supergirl was as a character. And Amazing Heroes #78 had a review of Crisis on Infinite Earths #7 as it was on the stand by noted reviewed R.A. Jones. Jones was clearly a Supergirl fan and this review is more sympathetic (if not downright angry).
And then less than a year after Crisis ended, Amazing Heroes #91 came out and we were diving back into the pool again.
I bought this from a $5 and issue, 5 for $20 box. It might be the best $4 I have spent.
The issue starts with then Amazing Heroes editor Mark Waid talking about how influential Amazing World of DC Comics #9 was for him as a boy. As a Legion fan, this love letter to the team was almost a bible. And clearly, it was a fan-driven magazine.
As a DC fan himself and in a place of publication power, he had the power to authorize this issue, a love letter to the Crisis by a magazine essentially written by fans. The editorial gives some of what lays inside. And trust me, there will be more posts about articles here.
But this magazine includes a look at the death of the Flash and why it happened, a timeline of the Crisis, obituaries for all the characters who died, a panel-by-panel breakdown of character appearances in the book, a review of the series as a whole but broken down issue by issue, introductions to the Charlton heroes now in the DC fold, and finally a discussion with the creators about what they liked and didn't like about the series.
For a Crisis on Infinite Earths fan this is a hearty dish!
But this post will specifically be looking at how the folks looked back at the death of Supergirl now that it was a bit in the rear view mirror.
In 'Making a Crisis of it', Mark Waid interviews Marv Wolfman, George Perez, and Jerry Ordway. Specifically he asks about their reflections on the series now that it is over.
It is so interesting to hear the creators talking about this series in retrospect, even if it only ended a few months before. While the whole article is a great read, I will only be concentrating on the Supergirl's pieces.
First off, Waid talks to Wolfman.
It is clear that Wolfman was pleased with how the Supergirl death came out. As he says, he tried to put in enough about her character so people would appreciate her and therefore be effected by her death.
A bit self-congratulatory, for sure. But remember that many people feel Crisis is 'the best Supergirl story' ever. That means it was written in a way to play up her heroism so readers not familiar with her would be impressed.
It is done well.
And George Perez also was happy with how it came out. He is very proud of Supergirl's death.
One thing I like is how Perez says he drew her specifically as a young woman and not someone fully developed like Wonder Woman. It is one of the things I love about Perez's Titans run. Starfire, Donna, and Raven all have very different body types.
In particular, in my mind, I can definitely see the panels of Supergirl in Crisis #5 when she fought a mind-controlled Captain Marvel. She does look like a teen there.
The article that opens the book is 'Who Doomed the Flash?' Writer Steve Webb wonders why Barry Allen failed as a character opening the door for him to be killed in the Crisis.
He has a lot of theories and he talks to a lot of creators. All Flash fans should find and read this.
One thing I have become aware of in hindsight is that the death of Supergirl is sort of *the* moment of Crisis on Infinite Earths. If you ask people the first thing they think of when someone mentions Crisis, it most likely is the cover of COIE #7.
I have always wondered how Flash fans think of that. I mean Barry Allen's death was a big deal. But it clearly is the silver medal.
Here, Webb says it outright. Crisis #8 isn't 'that great a story', his words. And Supergirl was given her 'finest hour' (again his words). So he couldn't help but be underwhelemed with Barry's death given how well Supergirl's death was pulled off.
Lastly, in the obituaries section, there is a sidebar where Perez and Wolfman talk about their decisions around who to kill, singling out The Bug Eyed Bandit as someone who needed to die simply for his name.
Again, Wolfman says that he was very happy by Supergirl's death saying it was done well.
So, at the very least, creators and comic writers all agreed that the scene of Supergirl's death was done very well.
I have to say I agree. It was done well, finally showing the world a character who I loved and why I loved her.
14 comments:
"A bit self-congratulatory, for sure."
Definitely. He sounds quite pleased with being the one who killed a character that he believes no one cared about.
"One thing I like is how Perez says he drew her specifically as a young woman and not someone fully developed like Wonder Woman."
But he doesn't say a "young woman". He says a "teenager". It bugs me. It's like they didn't read her stories past her Action Comics run.
"But remember that many people feel Crisis is 'the best Supergirl story' ever."
Because it is the only Supergirl story they have read. And they only read it because it was part of a big event.
I'm of two minds: On the one hand, that issue paradoxically ensured that Supergirl wouldn't be forgotten. On the another hand, I'm sick that some -mainly female- characters are entirely defined by a story where they got killed or fridged. If you believe certain fans, the only thing Supergirl, Batgirl and Jean Grey have ever done during over half century of -mostly- continued stories is dying or getting crippled.
And we don't get me started with "The Death of Superman" obsession. Some people truly believes dying and getting married is the only thing Superman did since the reboot, and his origin, his death and his fall of grace are the only stories you can tell about Superman.
If there is ever convened a "Geriatric Olympics" Marv Wolfman should try out for the track and field team as he has been running a continuous victory lap for COIE for thirty three years now....
JF
And why shouldn't he? It is easily in the top tier echelon of event comics and one of his best works. No reason to shame him for being proud of a story he worked on.
I will not speak for JF, but I think their issue is Wolfman broke DC's continuity forever, killed characters he was openly contemptuous of, slighted their fans... and he got away with it. Not only is his childhood fanfic regarded as one of the most important comicbook storylines but also he has never regretted their actions.
Here is what I'll say.
I have healthy respect for Crisis. It has stood the test of time as people still say 'pre and post' Crisis.
I don't think the multiverse was that big a problem it needed to be fixed.
I have come full circle about the death of Supergirl and appreciate what it did for her legacy and her character moving forward.
I like the Crisis a lot.
I don't wanna get into a whole grievance thread, besides in the main it's an argument we've long since won, I will see that DC had two choices in 1985, put talent to work making Supergirl a better more popular character or put talent to work telling a great story about her death, they went with the latter option. I feel it was the start of a DC Corporate addiction to "cheap heat" but what the hell, last week's TV show ep was gangbusters and DC SHG makes me larf on Youtube so..."Yay Kara!"
:)
JF
Yeah, this is pretty much how I feel- the start of Super Big Events taking over from consistently entertaining monthly issues. To be fair, there have been consistently entertaining monthlys since then. Crisis never did anything for me, although I will admit they handled the aftermath of Supergirl's death well elsewhere.
It is time to move forward though. It was over 30 years ago, and DC's changed since then. Supergirl's still around, and they're doing a lot of interesting things with her.
There were lots of Flashes to take over for Barry Allen, and they were "real" human Flashes (not purple glop). Maybe that's why killing him didn't mean quite as much? He had ready replacements, and Wally even had an identical origin story.
So for generations of fans, Wally West was "The Flash." (They must be pretty sore that he is, or may be, at least temporarily dead. And so far, this death looks EVEN LESS heroic, but the story has yet to play out.)
T.N.
Always found it interesting that the two high profile deaths in Crisis (Supergirl and The Flash) were both characters that had been drawn by Carmine Infantino.
The death of The Flash in Crisis 8 was almost something of a relief after that much too long "Trial of The Flash" story that ran from Flash 323 to 350. And Wally West was the logical one to carry on the legacy.
"Writer Steve Webb wonders why Barry Allen failed as a character..."
Barry Allen jump-started the Silver Age and was around for nearly 30 years before the Crisis. His own title (pre-crisis) ran successfully for 245 issues. Hardly a failure. But it is true that Flash's creative team of Cary Bates and Infantino were not "hot" in the way that Wolfman and Perez were at the time.
"I don't think the multiverse was that big a problem it needed to be fixed."
Agreed, but DC was determined to have a single Earth in a single universe, just like Marvel had, so the multiverse had to go. Unfortunately, they had to try and make nearly 50 years of often contradictory continuity fit together in a way that made sense. Sometimes it seems they put all their eggs into the Crisis basket, but didn't give as much thought to what was to come after. Maybe they thought "We can work it out as we go along". As it turned out, the post crisis DC Universe was often more confusing than the multiverse supposedly had been. Oliver Hardy would have called it "another nice mess".
I think they should have kept Earth One as the home of the Justice League, and Earth Two as the home of the Justice Society. The other Earths could have been done away with and their histories folded into either Earth One or Two. Superman would remain the first superhero in both universes, and Roy Thomas could have continued All Star Squadron.
As for Marv Wolfman and Supergirl, he DID write a good story for her. It's easy to blame Wolfman alone for killing off Kara, but Dick Giordano and Jenette Kahn were just as involved.
"In the main it's an argument we've long since won"
You only need to watch the recent Death/Reign duology. Matrix doesn't even show up, even though her role during those storylines wasn't non-insignificant. As far as mainstream media is concerned, Supergirl is Superman's cousin from Krypton or a non-existent entity.
"I feel it was the start of a DC Corporate addiction to "cheap heat""
Definitely. Post-Crisis DC fans can claim at their hearts' content that the 1990's were fun and joyful and Dan DiDio and his so-called Silver Age nostalgia is to blame for DC's darkening and event-driven obsession during the current millennium, but it is untrue.
The Post Crisis universe was built on dozens of characters' deaths, most prominent Supergirl and Flash's ones. Barbara Gordon got crippled. Jason Todd got killed. Superboy died. Superman killed and later got killed. Batman became a paranoid asshole and his back got broken. Aquaman got maimed. Hal Jordan went nuts and killed thousands of GLS after Coast City got nuked. Gotham City became No Man's Land. Kyle Rainer's girlfriend got literally fridged. John Stewart got crippled. The original Legion died. Wally West was permanently haunted by his predecessor's ghost.
It's sheer 90's nostalgia-driven nonsense to claim pre-DiDio DC was free from character deaths, event-driven storylines, inextricable continuity and overwhelming darkness.
"They must be pretty sore that he is, or may be, at least temporarily dead."
Yes, but how many of them were happy to spend twenty-four years putting down Barry Allen ("He was trash. If he was a good character, why did DC kill him off? He's a better character dead than alive") and his fans ("Your beloved bore is dead and not returning. Get. Over. It")?
I'm sorry for Wally West fans who DIDN'T fall into that kind of behavior. Those ones who praised and supported DC for mistreating and replacing a character they didn't care for (and/or grow up with), though? What goes around comes around.
"Hardly a failure."
Agreed, but they had to push a narrative in order to justify their actions. And they had to blame the characters instead of their writers.
"As it turned out, the post crisis DC Universe was often more confusing than the multiverse supposedly had been."
Agreed, again.
"It's easy to blame Wolfman alone for killing off Kara, but Dick Giordano and Jenette Kahn were just as involved."
I don't think someone is blaming Wolfman solely. He came up with the story but we know he wasn't the only pushing for killing her off. Byrne was another member of the "I hate legacy characters that deunique the heroes" club. And ultimately it was Kahn who greenlighted the story and then put her foot down every time someone wanted to bring her back or keep her around.
I don't know who decided nobody would remember Supergirl, though.
*sigh* I was always a Flash fan, but I LOVED Wally taking over and I'm my opinion his story and bring the FIRST legacy to take over the big job was great. Also he was NOT always in the shadow of Barry...did anyone read past issue 50 (Bill Loebs tried to say Wally was over it in that Vandal Savage story before Said come on and did a better job with the "Return of Barry Allen" storyline. That said, with the difficulty with time travel that was supposed to be in place after Crisis, they probably could've let him live happily ever after in the future with Iris.
My main problem with Supergirl's death was that I had a crazy theory at the time, that Kara would be hurt but not killed and be launched into a SUPERWOMAN series to also add to legacy and reflect a more assertive attitude post Crisis.
Silly idea I guess, but was upset with her death.
I don't think any of the creators involved should still be receiving such hate, as Crisis is still an amazing story.
My Daughter's favourite hero is our Maid of Might but when she read the Deluxe edition, she LOVED it.
Also Barbara Gordon was 10 times more amazing as Oracle than as Batgirl and I believe she gained WAY MORE comic reading fans in Chuck Dixon's Birds of Prey than she had previously.
Thanks for sharing this Dr Ang. Look forward to your post on LoSBs tomorrow
Thanks for looking at a mag I bought off the stands and reminding me that I’m sooooo old, Anj - still, at least nobody has killed me off.
On the notion that Barry had to die because the trial went on so long, actually, no - Cary Bates was told Barry was going to be offed so the decision was taken to keep the trial going, it was a water-treading exercise. And how many people have actually read that run? I was buying monthly and really enjoying the superheroic soap. I remember a few interviews at the time saying that Showcase #4 star Barry was actually chosen to die to signal that this Crisis marked the end of the Silver Age.
Myrwhydden useless? Well, he’s back this month, courtesy of Grant Morrison’s Green Lantern!
George Perez’ comments about the Bug-Eyed Bandit are as silly as a character named Bug-Eyed Bandit... DC had 50 years’ history encompassing tens of thousands of books and as many characters, of course some will have been a bit daft. So what, a diet of pure grim gets old really quickly. And it’s not like the likes of the BEB or Ten-Eyed Man (again, Grant Morrison found a use for the idea) were ever used or referred to back then, they were footnotes, surprising ingredients in a mostly sensible stew of comics history.
A few years later, mid-Wolfman’s extended writer’s block period, the entire Titans could have been considered expendable. How ironic >choke<.
"On the notion that Barry had to die because the trial went on so long, actually, no-Cary Bates was told Barry was going to be offed so the decision was taken to keep the trial going..."
Oh, I never meant to imply that Barry was chosen to die BECAUSE of the trial. My comment wasn't meant to be taken all that seriously. By the way, I quoted Cary Bates on this subject right here on Feb. 13, 2018, so I knew why the trial went on so long.
I DID read the trial story when it came out. At the time, I thought it ran longer than it should have, although I was happy to see Iris come back. Maybe I'll have to read it again.
As for the Bug-Eyed-Bandit, is that a sillier name than Paste Pot Pete? Actually, many characters names would probably sound silly if we hadn't got used to hearing and reading them for years and years. The Penguin? Metallo? Doctor Doom? Two Face? How would these names sound to the average man on the street?
"*sigh* I was always a Flash fan, but I LOVED Wally taking over"
Then you aren't one of those Wally West fans who put Barry Allen down, so why do you feel you have been singled out?
"I don't think any of the creators involved should still be receiving such hate"
I don't see anyone over here hating any of the creators. Has someone in the comments said they hated Marv Wolfman for killing Supergirl? Who? Where?
"Also Barbara Gordon was 10 times more amazing as Oracle than as Batgirl"
I don't know why you are bringing Oracle up when what was being argued is Barbara Gordon getting shot through her spine is one example out of many ones proving the Post-Crisis universe was dark long before DiDio came along. Whatever was done to her character afterwards doesn't change that.
Anyway... No. She really wasn't. Barbara Gordon was already amazing as Batgirl, and honestly I think Oracle fans tend to romanticize those years and overestimate her role and importance.
"and I believe she gained WAY MORE comic reading fans in Chuck Dixon's Birds of Prey than she had previously."
I highly doubt it. Do you seriously believe Oracle is a more popular character than Batgirl? Most of the general audience are aware of the existence of a Batgirl and think of her as a redhead. How many of them know Oracle?
Mission Control characters aren't unique, they seldom become popular and they can never be anything other than supporting characters in other heroes' story. The CW shows have proved that.
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