But this is from my post on this blog from November 21, 2008 ( http://comicboxcommentary.blogspot.com/2008/11/review-supergirl-35.html ):
I show this panel for one reason.
That's right, there are bike shorts under the mini-skirt! I, for one, think it makes sense for Supergirl to wear them given all the flying she does. And, thankfully, it takes away the potential for the pandering and gratuitous panty shot we sometimes have been subjected to. It also eliminates the need for the skirt to defy physics and always stays down.
I am completely okay with it.But I know that when Renato Guedes added them to Kara's costume in his issues, the negative feedback about it was unprecedented and (I feel) unwarranted. Buckle up Mr. Igle ... my guess is the same folks might complain again.
I know that even a broken clock is right twice a day but I knew that this topic might become a flashfire.
But even I could not foresee that the story would get so big that it would be covered by a mainstream site like NPR ( http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2009/07/let_there_be_bike_shorts_a_gee_1.html )!!!!
I think this is 'any publicity is good publicity' especially since the site talks about how good the title has been of late. From the article:
But things have been looking up for her of late. In her current series, the fantastically named writer Sterling Gates is doing good work supplying the character with depth and intelligence while downplaying some of the vampy-trampy aspects she got saddled with upon her return.
Meanwhile, artist Igle has given her a real, physiologically plausible body, outfitted in a costume that is growing steadily less, in the artist's words, "hoochie."
And that article led to more internet discussion including posts on popular comic sites like The Beat ( http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2009/07/06/supergirls-guide-to-short-skirts-and-the-active-lifestyle/ ) and CBR's Robot 6 ( http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/07/the-panty-shot-decree-heard-round-the-world/ ).
Unfortunately it is clear that a lot of the people who are posting responses there haven't read the book recently and are disparaging the character. That irks me to no end.
Anyways, I am pro-shorts and always have been. I am happy they are there. And I (again) promise to not initiate discussion on this topic again.
12 comments:
I don't care about the shorts, I'm more interested in the reason for them. Igle's explanation of Supergirl as a Superman character and therefore she must be conservative pushed some buttons for me and I don't think it was adequate.
Also, the panties. I've been watching Wimbledon the last two weeks. I saw a lot of panties, there was a 14 year old girl wearing them. I feel so dirty. ;)
At least the discussion of Supergirl's shorts in the popular media has had the side benefit of providing her greater visibility to the general public at large. Fortunately its at a time when she is a well rounded character and hero.
Supergirl's costume came up in a discussion at a party I was at on the 4th of July. The consensus is that no one can remember the last time they saw a teenage girl wear a belly shirt. Ten years ago, yes, but not recently. Perhaps its time for DC to allow Igle to implement that new costume idea he proposed last year.
She could always silence the critics and drag those sturdy old red "running shorts" out of the ole' super-wardrobe.
:D
John Feer
Nikki said...
I don't care about the shorts, I'm more interested in the reason for them. Igle's explanation of Supergirl as a Superman character and therefore she must be conservative pushed some buttons for me and I don't think it was adequate.
Noir I for that matter. Supergirl ISN'T Superman and should allowed to be her own person as such (she doesn't HAVE to honor the S-shield for it's the house of El crest and she has as much right to represent it in her own way as Superman) like Peter David's Linda Danvers.
DC please just give the go ahead for Jamal to give her an all new costume (just KEEP her 'blue and red' color scheme, including a RED skirt and don't you dare ditch her cape!) so we can get off of the controversy surrounding the frickin red tight shorts already! Yeesh!
Nikki said:Igle's explanation of Supergirl as a Superman character and therefore she must be conservative pushed some buttons for me and I don't think it was adequate.
Nikki: I've been sort of radio silent about this since the Newsarama article went up but I think this is something that I was not as clear about in my discussion with Matt Brady.
When Kara first came to Earth, it was automatically assumed by everyone around her that she would go into the "family business". She went along with it because she didn't know what else to do, frankly. She rebelled a bit for a good portion of the series. She was trying to feel her surroundings and find a place for her self on Earth. The argument could be made that since she's a member of the House of El she has every right to wear the "S" as Clark. That's true and is a very good point, but to the people of Earth, it's not a family crest, it is Superman's standard. Superman, who is considered the most powerful and nobelest of heroes. Which is indeed a lot to live up to. She constantly has the eyes of the world looking at her because she wears a variation of his uniform and is his cousin. However we have written Kara in such a way that she doesn't shirk from her responsibility, she chooses to follow Clark's lead as a hero, the key word being chooses. Superman represent certain values and just as if you were to follow another relative into the same business, wearing their colors, you become their representative.. With New Krypton hanging on the other side of the sun and kryptonians banned from Earth, she could leave Earth forever and live a life of leisure as basically Princess of the Kryptonians. Especially with Cat Grant launching a salvo of defaming articles, trying to turn public opinion against her.
All of these things went into the changes I made. Sterling and I had long discussions about how we wanted to mature Kara and how we wanted to show that visually.
I got the idea for the shorts (and I'll be honest, I didn't read Supergirl after joe Kelly left the book So I didn't know that Renato had given her similar shorts.) from talking to my nieces 13 , 15 and 17, and my students most of whom were under 18. It wasn't an arbitrary thought, lot was done with some deliberation.It fits the character and what the character represents and has always represented.
Jamal! Surprised to see your post. You care about what people understands or misunderstands. I like all your changes, and hope to see the rumored "new and improved" costume soon!
I suspect that the true fans are going to hang around, whether or not they like the shorts. I'm thinking, maybe the red color makes them stand out too much making the critics "see red", so to speak? Making them black, or back to blue may make them less obstrusive? Can you think about this?
I never thought that the previous blue wear were panties. I would have thought they were blue outerwear shorts and underwear was underneath it. You know, like what Superman and Batman and Wonder Woman, etc wear. But people reacted as if they were undies.
Jamal, is Kara now 18 (or equivalent Kryptonian age)? If not, would she be a truant since she's not in school? Maybe I think too much.
However we have written Kara in such a way that she doesn't shirk from her responsibility, she chooses to follow Clark's lead as a hero, the key word being chooses. Superman represent certain values and just as if you were to follow another relative into the same business, wearing their colors, you become their representative.. With New Krypton hanging on the other side of the sun and kryptonians banned from Earth, she could leave Earth forever and live a life of leisure as basically Princess of the Kryptonians. Especially with Cat Grant launching a salvo of defaming articles, trying to turn public opinion against her.
All of these things went into the changes I made. Sterling and I had long discussions about how we wanted to mature Kara and how we wanted to show that visually.
Thank you so so much for the post.
I think that growing maturity in Kara has permeated the title beyond just her costume. Her words and actions recently have really shown how much she has grown.
I think that people are viewing the shorts in too much of a vacuum. They aren't seeing them as being part of the bigger shirt, longer skirt, more grown-up Supergirl.
For me it wasn't seeing blue pants under her skirt ... they could be what cheerleaders wear under their skirts. It was the sports bra top, napkin sized skirts, puffy lips, and overly sexy poses that made them seem more like panties to me.
So for me it has been the whole change under your and Sterling's tenure that has been fantastic ... the bike shorts being one tiny part of it.
Anyways, I am hoping this topic fades away and I will promise to do my part to not bring it up anymore.
Thanks again for posting. I (and I am sure everyone else) really appreciate hearing from you.
As far as useless and meaningless topics, this one at least is standing up for Supergirl's dignity.
Supergirl is now a Super Hero we can respect. (Or at least isn't degraded upon) I don't think anyone, 2 or even 5 years ago, thought you could ever say that.
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Rocke: We decided not to say how old she is. All I can say is she's old enough to confirm which Guild she'll belong to.
Anj: Thank you.
@ Jamal: I just wanted to get in another vote for the shorts, they're great, please don't lose them.
Thank you Jamal for your comment. I can see your point of view and I like it. Its a lot different than it was presented. I think that there are a lot of ways to present Kara's relation to the Superman image from a more independant perspective. It seems that the 'S' is untarnishable, after all Superman is not banned from Earth. How does Supergirl's presence change people's perspective on Superman? Does her fallibility make Superman seem more 'human'? I have really liked the continuation of the differing standards people in metropolis have for Superman and Supergirl. Such as the football game where they are eager to help him but she gets a cola to the face or prior to that when Kara is painfully aware of people's disappointment when she shows up and not Superman. Superman seems untouchable in the DCU public's mind whether she wear's the 'S' or not. She has a stake in that symbol and she needs to make her mark on it.
I don't think we've seen Kara make her choice to be a superhero. She almost got there at the end of #9 where she seems to say she does what is needed of her. In the Superman/Batman story she falls into it due to creative reasons. Superman already had ma make her a costume by the conclusion.
While she may want to be like Superman, as respected and as good as him I don't think that can ever happen. Supergirl has always been written to take two steps forward but take a step back to fall into line for Superman. It seems impossible that she will ever be written to match him intentionally. I suppose it doesn't invalidate her attempts but why waste time on something that will go nowhere? Perhaps a self set achievable goal would be better.
As for the shorts themselves I think they are being taken a symbol for how female characters are presented in comics no matter the age. Of course Supergirl has a history with short shorts that has been convieniently been ignored but there is a growing feeling that Wonder Woman needs more than a swimsuit and peej needs a sweater and a bra. Supergirl's shorts seems like a step in the right direction. I'm 21, when I was in school the shorter one's skirt was the cooler you were but the year below would have all the 'cool' girls wearing skirts below their knees. I was never comfortable in short skirts and I did wear shorts under my gym skirt but there were plenty who didn't. They weren't skanky because of it and they didn't do it to titilate the boys who were in a separate room. All people are different and there is no problem in that. Of course, I'm also european so there is a liberalism there.
I know its hard to depict a female character these days, everyone scrutinizes you if you put a foot in the wrong place. Supergirl especially, people believe in a Miss Martian/ Mary Marvel innocence that was never there for me. Even in the 60's she looked and sounded so pure but step back and we see she treated boys really badly. At one point she had 3 boyfriends, 4 if you count her horse and people call modern Kara a whore because she shows belly! Create a character than has her own mind, her individuality and have her kick buttocks and you can't go wrong.
I feel like such a moaner over a non-issue like this and it distracts from the overall good job Sterling and yourself are doing. I like we fans have people to fight in our character's corner no matter whether we wholely agree or not. Too long has she seemed like a Superman accessory or barnacle depending on perspective. I feel happy in the knowledge that should DC decide to retcon her again someone other than Levitz will fight for her.
(that took me hours, jeez. I'll be having a life now. Excuse me :D)
I feel like such a moaner over a non-issue like this and it distracts from the overall good job Sterling and yourself are doing. I like we fans have people to fight in our character's corner no matter whether we wholely agree or not. Too long has she seemed like a Superman accessory or barnacle depending on perspective. I feel happy in the knowledge that should DC decide to retcon her again someone other than Levitz will fight for her.
Thanks for the post.
I agree ... it feels okay to be a Supergirl fan now, something I didn't always think I could say aloud.
And I also think that talking about shorts does seem to belittle everything else the current team has done which has been so great.
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