I have been doing this blog for over sixteen years, covering Supergirl in all her incarnations.
One topic that I keep coming back to is Crisis on Infinite Earths. Every time I think I have covered all of it, and in particular Supergirl's death in Crisis on Infinite Earths #7, I find something new to cover.
Now I have said before that I have made my peace with Supergirl's death in Crisis. It was an incredibly heroic moment. She saved Superman and basically the multiverse. The cover of COIE #7 is the image of the series. Everyone remembers her role.
That said, it still stings a little to know that DC thought so little of the character that they felt she could ... and should ... be killed and erased from history.
All this is preamble to the fact that at a visit to a local comic store I ran across Comics Interview #26 which included an interview with Marv Wolfman and Robert Greenberger about the Crisis. It is a very interesting article.
First off, it hit the stands before Crisis was finished, right after COIE #9 was released. So Wolfman and Greenberger have to be a bit coy about the overall ending. But the deaths of Supergirl and the Flash were pretty fresh. The concept of rebuilding the DCU into one universe hadn't happened and was basically an unknown. And these ideas are touched on by interviewer Patrick O'Neill.
So let's dive in.
Supergirl 'wasn't functioning as a character'.
First off, it is pretty interesting that Supergirl and the Flash's deaths were planned from the very beginning, from the first draft. In the article, Wolfman says that the initial 'script' was basically a 2-3 page outline. He knew that Supergirl would die in COIE #7 and Flash would die in COIE #8 even then.
I also think it is funny that Wolfman brings up that his decision to kill her preceded the Supergirl movie flop. He wants it known that the movie wasn't the decision. It was him.
I have read a lot about Crisis and Wolfman's feelings about Kara in the past. But this is about as brutally honest I have heard him.
Supergirl 'wasn't functioning as a character'.
I am not sure what that means. Can anybody tell me what they think he meant?
Supergirl 'wasn't helping Superman. She was hurting him in many ways.' She was 'taking away some of his specialness'.
Funny how he didn't mention that about ... hmmm ... Batgirl? Huntress? Mary Marvel? Mera? Bulletgirl? Heck, it doesn't even have to be a female/male thing. What about Speedy? Wonder Girl? Kid Flash?
I think he just didn't like her.
It is also amusing that again he has to double down saying it was his decision and not because of the movie.
Hooray for Paul Levitz for doing his best to save her. How funny that Wolfman had to punt it up to Jenette Kahn to overrule Levitz saving her. I don't know if this overruling Levitz was at the time of 'that note' or if it was after, a re-ruling.
I suppose Levitz did his best, keeping Supergirl at least a sort of presence in the Sensor Girl mystery.
The article is really great as Wolfman and Greenberger talk about all their plans with the Crisis. There was a whole section about the Crisis Crossovers that I found fascinating. It sounds like every editor was told they could ask to do a crossover but it took a little bit of time before many took advantage.
I thought this paragraph was fascinating. It sounds like Wolfman only wanted the Crisis Crossover trade dress on issues where the events of the Crisis was a major plot point. But not everyone listened.
As someone who used to bemoan the 'crossover' that was basically a shot of red skies on one page, it was interesting the see that was not what Wolfman or Greenberger intended.
As I said, Crisis wasn't over when this article was written and released. So no one knew what the new single universe was going to be like. Kudos to the interviewer for asking if the DCU denizens would remember the pre-Crisis world.
It seems like Wolfman and Greenberger had come to their ending and felt pretty good about it. '95% happy' and no one 'crying sour grapes'.
Now I have said that I have come full circle with Supergirl's death in Crisis, how it means she is part of one of the more historic comic moments. But one thing I have never come to terms with is how her sacrifice was basically forgotten in the DCU, her very existence erased from the collective memory. Surely there must have been some way to continue to honor her.
And so I find myself again picking at the scab of Crisis on Infinite Earths. I am glad I found this magazine as it fills in more of my knowledge gaps about the series. Hope you enjoyed this.
Interesting interview. I think you’re right, for some reason Wolfman didn’t connect with Supergirl so he’s coming out with reasons that are easily destroyed by your logic. And that stuff about duplicate heroes and Roy Thomas and candies and puppies all round… it wasn’t long before Thomas’ Earth 2 was indeed ripped out from under him.
ReplyDeleteSupergirl living in the future with the Legion could have been fun.
ReplyDeleteGood Old Marv Wolfman, he is "The FanPro's FanPro", glib condescending and Needlessly Cruel, he doesn't "dislike" Supergirl he actively HATES the character and her fanbase as well. And like all fanpros he can't engage with a character he hates, so the solution, give Supergirl a death scene (she literally dies raising her hands in worship to Kal El) and the expell her from continuity and her fans from the DCU ranks...it's the ultimate fanpro move. But I am alone in reading a very patriarchical filter that Marv has for Kara? She is supposed to "do something for Superman" (like what, make him hot cocoa on a rainy day?) she is supposed to reinforce the specialness of the main GUY and not be an independent character with adventures of her own. This is the essence of toxic patriarchy quite frankly. It's just a damn shame that the woman at the top, didn't see thru the chauvinism that buttressed the decision to kill off and expunge Kara. I'll say this much I think to this day Marv breathes a sigh of relief that Supergirl (1984) didn't make 250 million world wide....that might've queered his deal. But I am playing an old tune, and the hour grows late. JF
ReplyDeleteTo think for years I blamed Dr. Light for distracting Supergirl and causing her death. Thinking a female editor and chief should be more sensitive to possible chauvinism is a different type of sexism. The Flash was a mercy killing, his book had been a mess since Iris was murdered.
ReplyDeleteThank you for the comments. I do find revisiting this history quite interesting. I do not understand exactly why Wolfman found nothing more deeming about Supergirl. But it is fascinating that that disdain has led to one of the most historic comic moments ever.
ReplyDeleteSome interesting things said in that interview.
ReplyDeleteWolfman says that Supergirl was not functioning as a character. As someone who was reading the book at the time it was always hard to know what the writers wanted her to be “as a character” since they could never stick with a locale, cast of characters, profession, or friends for very long. In addition she was the only teen hero based on an adult hero who was never allowed to regularly be part of a team other than LOSH, and even there it was always as a guest in the book. In the quarter century of pre-crisis she was never a member of the Teen Titans, never a part of the JLA other than as a guest to advance a Superman story, couldn't stay in the future with LOSH, no permanent relationships or friends, love interests that last a couple issues and then never heard from again, and on and on.
Here Wolfman says that she wasn’t working because she “wasn’t helping Superman” and was “hurting him” by “taking away some of his specialness”. I guess that would mean the things they have in common, which were the S logo uniforms, powers, and Kryptonian origin. That’s really all they had in common, and if those are the things Wolfman thought made Superman special then it explains in part how Batman and his family of characters slowly surpassed Superman in popularity after Crisis.
Excellent point about Batgirl and all. It's too bad the interviewer didn't challenge Wolfman with some follow up questions. And I have no idea what "she wasn't functioning as a character" means.
ReplyDeleteAs for Roy Thomas, since Marv mentioned him, I don't know how "satisfied" he was with the way it all worked out. Here's what he said to Michael Eury at Heroes Con 2017 (interview published in Back Issue # 106: "I will say, I think that Marv and George dd a really nice job with the series. It's a good looking series....I just don't think it should have been done."
Crisis was an excellent story, with fantastic art, but in the end, I think it did more harm than good.
The irony is that under Paul Kupperberg, Carmine Infantino and Bob Oksner Kara finally had a consistently excellent series.
ReplyDeleteSo true Mart - Chicago, student, supporting cast, rogue's gallery - it was all there!
ReplyDeleteCrisis on Infinite Earths was a great story and a terrible idea.
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts on this are that the key to getting why people like Wolfman and Giordano approached killing Kara off so casually really lies with looking at how John Byrne handled the reboot of Superman post crisis. At the heart of Byrne's characterization was an insistence that Clark had to be the absolute lone surviving Kryptonian without succession. He seems to have truly believed that Clark being the sole living member of his species was absolutely key to his characterization and lasting appeal as a character. As the last ever Kryptonian, Clark became the living embodiment of an entire species' whole cultural and evolutionary legacy. His virtue and success wasn't simply a test of his personal ability; it was ultimately a definitive testament to the rest of the universe set to last for all time as to whether the Kryptonian people were ultimately a good and able part of creation. Realizing that every battle, every choice, and every achievement of his came with the whole weight of an entire people's legacy resting on his shoulders thus gave his life and deeds a profundity that Byrne et al. seem to think would have otherwise been lacking if other Kryptonians such as Kara survived and therefore could cut in on his otherwise exclusive birthright claim to be the guardian of Krypton's posthumous honor.
ReplyDeleteWhether or not you agree with that judgement - and for the record I don't - I think that sense that Clark's specialness was tied to him being the one living Kryptonian is essential to understanding why Wolfman and Giordano gave so little thought to killing Kara. When they talk about her distracting from Clark's specialness, I think this is what they were referring to. Thus, I think the judgement that they hated Kara is fundamentally wrong. What is fair to say though is that they didn't understand that Clark could still be special without being the sole champion of Krypton's legacy, and at the same time they never got how Kara could be special in her own way and add to the way Clark represented the best of Krypton. When Dick Giordano allegedly dismissed Kara as, "Superman with boobs," what they were saying was that all they saw was a marketing gimmick for girls. Realistically that likely is what Kara was in her initial pitch, but the thing that made her special and I think ultimately led to her being revived for a new generation of readers twice was how she evolved into being more than that.
Part of that was how her relative youth gave the readership an opportunity to see how a young person with the Kryptonian power set learned how to control powers and define themselves as a hero in a way that wasn't really doable with the characterization of Superman as an established hero who'd been in full command of his powers for years. The other way was to emphasize how Krypton was a lived experience for Kara in a way it couldn’t be for Clark. When Clark stands up for Krypton's dignity, it's ultimately as something of an abstract act of honor to his birth parents and broader heritage. When Kara chooses to represent Krypton’s honor, it’s because she’s standing up for a lived memory of all the best moments of her life with Zor-El, Alura, and every other she cared for on Krypton. That's perhaps the best explanation for why Kara matters and is worthwhile. The deeds of Krypton's last son are a credit to its memory, while the deeds of its last daughter are a credit to its life.
Here's one last point. In the end, what defined the Silver and Bronze Age Kara's legacy to me isn't her death in COIE #7, but the way Clark mourns for her at the end of "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow". Her reintroduction to the DCU cannon and the appreciation most modern writers seem to have for her indicates that the respect for her shown by people like Moore and Levitz rather than the disregard of people like Wolfman or Giordano is what has triumphed over the long run, and by extension validated the strength of her character.