tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post6074467541226106031..comments2024-03-27T19:22:03.112-04:00Comments on Supergirl Comic Box Commentary: 30th Anniversary Crisis On Infinite Earths #7 Part 2Anjhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10023193805914075078noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-45451689382025192632017-01-06T13:47:32.219-05:002017-01-06T13:47:32.219-05:00"The purpose of COIE was to clean up the cont..."The purpose of COIE was to clean up the continuity and remove the doubles, the reboot came almost two years later with Legends and it was a total continuity mess, as we all know."<br /><br />Well, some fans defend the Crisis and the subsequent reboot, claiming that the DC universe would be even more convoluted without COIE.<br /><br />Given that the Post-Crisis universe became a convoluted mess specifically because of the Crisis, I highly doubt that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-5285006771306975452015-07-13T06:17:21.400-04:002015-07-13T06:17:21.400-04:00Well, we can argue a lot on why Kara was "sen...Well, we can argue a lot on why Kara was "sentenced" to death: was it just fridging, or making her legacy count after a few attempts to properly launch the character - solo movie included.<br />But I keep on repeating this concept, COIE was NOT done to reboot the characters, actually, the very concept of reboot was still years away. There was just one continuity, previous attempts of "rebooting" characters had been done just not caring that much (no more Jay Garrick, here comes Barry Allen) or forcing them into continuity (Kryptonite No More).<br />The purpose of COIE was to clean up the continuity and remove the doubles, the reboot came almost two years later with <i>Legends</i> and it was a total continuity mess, as we all know. So we had two Supergirls, and one had to go, we had to Supermen and one had to go, we had two Wonder Women and... Oh, well, we don't need them at all!<br />That was the idea, and, to say it out loud, Earth-1 <b>Superman</b>, was the one who was supposed to die, with Kal-L taking his place, but then they reverted to his cousin. There was no reboot, we had about one year of Superman stories with Supergirl dead and one single Earth before Byrne, Miller, Pérez weighted in, the reboots started and Legends happened, and, actually, the Crisis was almost never mentioned as it never happened for <b>many</b> years.Nobilehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13522190343375207768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-58686775244724257722015-07-10T18:13:12.295-04:002015-07-10T18:13:12.295-04:00Here are the pulp heroes covers:
http://www.super...Here are the pulp heroes covers:<br /><br />http://www.superpunch.net/2008/03/dc-comic-pulp-heroes-cover-gallery.html<br /><br />-TMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-34812921534009176522015-07-09T13:25:03.583-04:002015-07-09T13:25:03.583-04:00I got Amercan Century, a Chaykin book where he did...I got Amercan Century, a Chaykin book where he did covers. He was a genius.<br /><br />Will look up Pulp Heroes!Anjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10023193805914075078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-34151983064176476472015-07-09T13:18:25.271-04:002015-07-09T13:18:25.271-04:00You still have to look up the Orbik covers! Martia...You still have to look up the Orbik covers! Martian Manhunter was great. Glen later moved on to doing the covers of the Hard Crime pbs. I thought he was the next best cover artist to Alex Ross.Wayne Allen Salleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17199261942617339556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-37751027626016676732015-07-09T06:21:13.318-04:002015-07-09T06:21:13.318-04:00I have the Pulp Heroes annual in the long box, don...I have the Pulp Heroes annual in the long box, don't worry!<br />That hasn't been on my radar to do a review of, I'll be honest. But now I think I need to pull it out and reread!Anjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10023193805914075078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-72012384072070782015-07-09T01:17:20.090-04:002015-07-09T01:17:20.090-04:00Anj: the Pulp Heroes one, I'm guessing 1995, w...Anj: the Pulp Heroes one, I'm guessing 1995, was great. And you really need the cover art by the late Glen Orbik. He died a few months back, much too young. Supergirl and B 5. I'm sure you can Google Image it, just type in s, B5 and Orbik, maybe even DC Pulp Heroes.<br /><br />Yeah, I know the comment was made by someone at DC. Harsh and d!ckish. They haven't changed. I didn't mean so much that Byrne was already signed on to Superman--I actually never thought about that--but it made sense to get a fresh start that meant taking away almost everything. Though there could easily have been a Supergirl arriving on Earth before Matrix showed up, so I still call foul on DC.<br /><br />It would be great to see an analogue of Brainiac 5 on the show! Find that Orbik cover. I'd have to look in my crawlspace to find my copy, so I can't tell you what Annual# it was for Supergirl.<br /><br />FYI: Orbik did all of the Pulp Heroes covers. I'm sure a lot show up on Google Images. Met him a few times. Sad he's gone so young.Wayne Allen Salleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17199261942617339556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-67846708055618625642015-07-08T19:00:32.789-04:002015-07-08T19:00:32.789-04:00As artful as her death is, Supergirl's death i...As artful as her death is, Supergirl's death is always overshadowed by capricious & malevolent editorial trends at DC Comics that the COIE ushered in.<br />And while we are discussing "the rough" don't forget that Marv Wolfman dismissed Supergirl as a "Barnacle on Superman's Hulk" (left undiscussed the relative mollusk attributes of Batgirl, Wondergirl, Lady Blackhawk & Tula the Aquagirl). <br />Thirty years and my blood still boils...until I recall that Kara is at last getting her shot at redemption on TV!<br />FIngers crossed!<br />:)<br /><br />JFAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-60764908043510246262015-07-08T17:58:06.329-04:002015-07-08T17:58:06.329-04:00Wayne, I completely agree that 'Superman with ...Wayne, I completely agree that 'Superman with boobs' is rough! That's not my quote, that is a quote from one of DC's executives.<br /><br />I don't think Byrne had specifically signed on for Superman when this was done. But I think DC saw the writing on the wall for a reboot.<br /><br />And I have reviewed that Legion issue here (and all the crisis crossovers she was in over time). But I never did the Pulp Hero one. Hmmm ....<br /><br />Thanks for the comment!Anjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10023193805914075078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-77930437940645897062015-07-08T13:55:53.269-04:002015-07-08T13:55:53.269-04:00"Superman with boobs" seems a little har..."Superman with boobs" seems a little harsh. Considering Barry Allen stayed "dead" for a few years longer than Kara did, I do put a lot of weight into believing that DC had to kill off Supergirl if they were going to do a proper reboot of Superman. Aside from the "pocket universe" silliness, none of the Matrix.Luthor with the beard/great Peter David series happened until long after the new "Byrne-Superman" had been around.<br /><br />Put that against Flash, whose character seemed to have run its course. There was even a different JLA at the time.<br /><br />And there were some decent stories related to her death involving Brainiac 5 grieving in LSH, and that wonderful Pulp Heroes annual from the mid-90s with Supergirl and Brainiac 5. <br /><br />I'd be curious as to what editorial edict was then as compared to the new52, and if there was any back and forth over Supergirl's death as little (I assume) as The Flash's death. <br /><br />I was extremely saddened by the issue, and surprised that the two deaths would follow each other just an issue apart. But I understood their reasoning, whether I was right or wrong at the time. It had to be a clean slate for the Superman reboot.Wayne Allen Salleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17199261942617339556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-39145032757101147702015-07-08T08:28:46.530-04:002015-07-08T08:28:46.530-04:00Thanks for the comments.
Its funny Count, I have ...Thanks for the comments.<br /><br />Its funny Count, I have read the issue too many times to count. But reviewing it added a layer of passion I hadn't felt in a while, as if words that have been waiting 30yrs to come out finally had a venue.<br /><br />And yes John, the In-Ze/Argo/Pocket Universe is all a way to keep Superman singular.<br />Anjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10023193805914075078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-31888570412165312712015-07-07T22:04:50.922-04:002015-07-07T22:04:50.922-04:00Excellent two part review of Crisis on Infinite Ea...Excellent two part review of Crisis on Infinite Earths 7. It was interesting to read the thoughts of someone who read the issue in 1985. <br /><br />I read this issue for the first ime around 2007. Prior to reading Crisis, I always wondered why Kara had no appearances in different media. After I saw the Supergirl movie I wanted to see more of the character. This issue explains so much why Kara never appeared on TV's Superboy or Lois and Clark. And it explains why Kara In-Ze was from Krypton's sister planet Argo.<br /><br />Supergirl continues to be a great character, and the Crisis story is one of many moments where her greatness shines.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00393732133277172110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-55295652386499279432015-07-07T21:23:23.974-04:002015-07-07T21:23:23.974-04:00I have complicated feelings about CRISIS because I...I have complicated feelings about CRISIS because I appreciate the story on a historical level, but when I read it for the first time (only ten years ago) it failed to impress me. Listening to Michael Bailey and Scott Gardner talk about it on the Tales of the Justice Society of America podcast inspired me to look at the book again and as I've been revisiting it, (some of) my feelings are changing.<br /><br />The one thing from my original reading that always resonated was the death of Supergirl. I really wasn't that familiar with the character before this book, but Wolfman made me like her in a very short amount of time. And then he killed her. I knew it was coming, of course, but it still felt like she was stolen away by the cosmic forces of publishing edict rather than story. Also, I've never liked Doctor Light because of her total inaction during the scene.<br /><br />Great review, Anj. Your passion and sentiment is easily felt in these posts.Count Drunkulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18130778855882160092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-90774921659481869902015-07-07T19:08:05.526-04:002015-07-07T19:08:05.526-04:00Thanks for the great comments.
I see your point L...Thanks for the great comments.<br /><br />I see your point Louis. There is more to that J'onn death. But i still think that was a footnote in Final Crisis and not the major turning point Kara's sacrifice is.<br /><br />And you are right Godzylla, this was a great death ... but a death nonetheless.Anjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10023193805914075078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-59003066741647789802015-07-07T18:16:46.086-04:002015-07-07T18:16:46.086-04:00Even your recap here brings up all the emotions I ...Even your recap here brings up all the emotions I had reading Crisis 7 for the first time (and indeed, each rereading). Not being a fan of late Infantino art, I didn't enjoy her last series as much as I'd wished, but her death still hurt, and though she was being eliminated to streamline Superman's broader legend post-Crisis, this is definitely not an early example of WIR. <br /><br />Supergirl's death was the central pain, the linchpin of the series, as Barry Allen's death in the following issue, though well-written by Wolfman, was almost a relief after years of DC killing any interest in the character with the abominably poor and seemingly never-ending "Trial of the Flash." Everything that Kara was, represented, and could have been was encapsulated in her arc through Crisis on Infinite Earths. Which almost made up for losing her.<br /><br />But not quite.<br /><br />I haven't read any of the other Crisis events you've mentioned (including Convergence), and I've heard too much about them to ever have any interest in doing so. Crisis on Infinite Earths established how to do a company-wide crossover: a tight plot that makes sense, and allowing the characters to shine. Unfortunately, company crossovers since have followed the Secret Wars formula (no real story but a major slugfest setting up whatever corporate has dictated must change in the line), with poor writing, concepts, disservice to fans, and generally insulting the audience.<br /><br />Excellent post.Godzyllahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15158294775397668186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-10136294384388957442015-07-07T10:36:54.629-04:002015-07-07T10:36:54.629-04:00When I first read this story from a huge collected...When I first read this story from a huge collected edition of COIE lent to me by a neighbour's friend, I think I was definitely blown away by the scope, epicness and grand stakes of heroism and villainy set up in this particular issue. Supergirl's sacrifice remains a powerful and emotional scene and your analysis shows how poignant it was for Supergirl fans to be losing one of their favourite comic book characters in the heat of battle. It might have been unfair to deprive DC Comics of the real Supergirl for nearly 2 decades but as you say, there are worse ways a character has been killed off in the comics. This was Supergirl's last stand and showed her true heroism, courage and selflessness, so regardless of the aftermath, it can't be a bad way for a character to bow out.<br /><br />If I may though, there are a few things regarding one of the characters you call having a terrible death, Martian Manhunter. Firstly, it was Libra who technically killed J'onn with a flaming spear. And secondly, a Final Crisis tie-in called Final Crisis Requiem covered J'onn's final moments and funeral. Although the main series makes it look like J'onn is casually taken out, he puts up a brave fight in that tie in by telepathically assaulting the Secret Society and makes them think the Justice League has come to finish them off. And before he dies, he transmits Mars' history and his own into the minds of Superman, Batman, Hal Jordan and Gypsy to be recorded and preserved after his passing so it isn't lost. Sorry if this sounds nit picky, it's not meant to be, but I thought it might interest you in case you haven't read it.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2669531469217423923.post-57984766072285261232015-07-07T08:10:08.160-04:002015-07-07T08:10:08.160-04:00On a slightly different subject, I've noticed ...On a slightly different subject, I've noticed that the Amazon websites are advertising two new Supergirl books. One is called "Supergirl 1" by Jeph Loeb and is due to be published on 9 February 2016. The other is simply called "Supergirl" by Peter David and Gary Frank and is due on 15 March 2016. They may be reissues, prompted by the Supergirl television series, but no further details are given.John (somewhere in England)noreply@blogger.com